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Thread: Proposed Autoslalom PAX Car Classing + Points

  1. #16
    Senior Member test 20Specv12's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    I'm too lazy to look mine up can you or Marc do that for me? Lol

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  2. #17
    Senior Member test Sooby's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    Mods? Too lazy to look

    - - - Updated - - -


    Hs or sts depending on mods or street modified I don't know lol
    Last edited by Sooby; 05-30-2015 at 10:55 AM.

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  3. #18
    Administrator test MarcGSR's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    Quote Originally Posted by Kattty View Post
    So 3 classes on the day of events..okay....

    My question is then, who is ensuring vehicles go in the corrrect PAX to verify the cars are in the correct 3 groups you guys have set up...

    Is pax going to be used to determine the winner per class that day,or used for over all points winner at the end of the year.

    When your dealing with a small number of peoples spare time and your not doing it at a professional level....the best way to go about it is consistency....
    It's up to the competitors to class themselves honestly. If there is something fishy going on, a dispute can be called. It's the same system other clubs use. I'm sure there will be a few knowledgeable people at the events that won't mind giving a hand to new-comers that need to find their class. There will also be a hard copy of the rules (car classification) on site.

    No system is absolutely perfect for each individual person's car but the PAX system is arguably the most consistent. It was implemented in 2002 by the SCCA, each year they calculate the PAX factors based on hundreds of events.


    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis_conway View Post
    I'm all about hating this idea but I guess I can respond productively( be like James) I suggest the ones that are really serious about implementing this system to participate in a autoslolam out of town that uses the pax system. Then you'll be making educated decisions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Maybe I should explain why I'm against....pax system will force the people to to keep there cars stock as possible( because that's just how you play the game) so if we're are talking about minimal mods to what you have then you are best to buy the best car that will give you the advantage. Ie dont buy tires or suspension just buy the proper car. Another example....2011 Sti vs 90 talon.....same class stock....not a fair race....but with modifications to the talon you could possibly be satisfied with your finishing position.....another unfair issue.....b swaps in civics...stock??? Well the owner will fight you tooth and nail that they came stock some where in this world....how are you going to deal with that?......another fact....we all heard that Nav changed bushings in his car.....guess what....bam he's fucked, pax will punish him for those bushings.

    When people wake up Sunday morning and have no fucken clue what or where there car fits you're going to see a decrease in cars. You're playing with people's free time, why make things harder than it needs to be Sunday morning?
    As far as I know, the only people that have run in out-of-town autox events are Kattty and Shawn. I disagree that using PAX encourages bringing a stock car. Look at out-of-town events or national championship events, they're /not/ run by a bunch of stock cars and the 'stock' class is far from the one with the most competitors.

    You stated a 2011 STi and a 1990 Talon would be in the same class when in reality a stock STi falls in B-Street with a PAX factor of 0.826 and the Talon falls in D-Street with a PAX factor of 0.812. So you can see how PAX allows a stock talon to be competitive with a brand new STi. You can use this click here for Street Category by Manufacturer to quickly class a stock car. You cannot swap motors in the SCCA's Street class unless it's the same motor, as stated explicitly in the rules. In Street Prepared you can swap motors from the same line (i.e. a B18C5 Type-R engine in to an Integra RS). For Nav, if he replaced his bushings with oem parts then he is fine in the 'stock' class as per section 13.8 C 'Suspension bushings, including but not limited to those which carry the weight of the vehicle and determine ride height, may not be replaced with bushings of a different material or dimension.', if they are aftermarket then he would bump up to the next class.

    I'd like to see people that plan on competing class their car before the event day. That's what I made this thread for. Class your car once, it's done - unless you start adding mods but you should be able to reclass yourself without too much trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by dorkage View Post
    How are the classes determined? What if I showed up with ExtremeDW tires which have a super high treadwear number(340), but have loads of grip? What about the fact it is 300+horse power and AWD? Does that have any affect of the classes?
    If your car is stock, you would be in the SCCA D-Street class with a PAX factor of 0.812. This would be applied to your fastest raw time of the day to get your points.

    Since you are in a 'stock' class and on stree tires, you would fit into the proposed TBAC class Street (there are 3 TBAC classes; Street, Street Mod and Performance).

    Quote Originally Posted by Nav View Post
    Like I said earlier, I'm a fan of what you propose and again, I'm not happy with the timing of the transition (a bit more notice would of been nice). As far as I know, the club actually never voted on it, and to make it official, I would think that would be necessary. I think PAX is a worthy discussion, and something that we should be aiming for in the future, but not necessarily next week! But despite my criticism, I'm super happy to have Mark pushing for greater venues, more fair competition, and better equipment. Thanks for everything you do for the club and for autox!
    Mike, I understand completely and agree that more notice should be given. If we had more members at the meeting, it would of been brought up and voted on. The TBAC board decided to move forward with this as a test. We did not decide that this system is set-in-stone. We would like to try it out for the first 3-4 slaloms and if competitors aren't happy, we will keep all the raw times and revert to the old socring system. However, nobody wants to move ahead with this as a test, I will put a motion up to postpone this to next year?

    Quote Originally Posted by 20Specv12 View Post
    I'm too lazy to look mine up can you or Marc do that for me? Lol

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    PM me your list of mods or post them in this thread and I'll do it for you.

    Here is a great resource to use to quickly find out what class you fall into click her for Quick Reference Category Allowances (I have added this link to the first post as well).

  4. #19
    Senior Member test Curtis_conway's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    I just have major concerns after seeming what you guys did to the winter stuff. Please don't kill summer stuff too.

    If shit ain't broke don't fuck with it......Should of learn that by now.

  5. #20
    Administrator test MarcGSR's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    I definitely get your point. Our current system ain't broke either. The summer events have grown since the current system was put in place and I feel like it's becoming outdated. I'm trying to promote more competition and fair competition across the field, hopefully growing the summer events by giving more people a chance to walk away with season trophies as well, by adding a 3rd class. And new lots along with the new timing and scoring hardware and software are huge bonuses as well.

    If we keep the 2-class treadwear system this season, from listening to the racers, most people will want to try the PAX route soon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 20Specv12 View Post
    I'm too lazy to look mine up can you or Marc do that for me? Lol

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    You have an aftermarket intake, header, high-flow cat, exhaust, poly torque mount, springs, front and rear sway bars, and a short throw shifter. This would put you in the SCCA Street Touring Xtreme (STX) with a PAX factor of 0.831. Since you are in a Street Touring category with street tires, you would fit into the proposed Performance TBAC division.

  6. #21
    Senior Member test Curtis_conway's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    You are trying to promote what "you" believe is more and fair competition. And I am trying to say that it isn't going to as fair as "you" think it will be. You keep referring to this system as a system that other clubs use.......you know they aren't running 15-20 eh? It's 100+ entries at the events you are talking about....


    Ok so what drives me to want to go to an autoslalom?? Well when I'm allowed to drive the Sti, I'm wanting to beat Dan and reimer and justin and Kevin......and that we're racing straight up....not index style.

    Fuck I rarely race bracket racing at the drag strip...it's soo gay.
    Last edited by Curtis_conway; 05-30-2015 at 04:31 PM.

  7. #22
    Senior Member test Snidd's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabs View Post
    All 350z' fall under class B of the Street Prepared Category, therefore you are in BSP with a PAX index of 0.863

    Thanks Nabs for clearing that up for me! follow up question,since im in BSP,which would be Street Modified for our local class.Do i keep the same rating of 0.863? and just be competing for top 3 with other SM cars? or do all SM cars get a new rating?

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  8. #23
    Senior Member test Curtis_conway's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    Good question....do you believe bracket racing is better and more fair competition? I personal think for some that are deep into it it is but for the average person that just wants to race it's just a waste of time

  9. #24
    Premium Member test Nabs's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    If I understand correctly you'd keep your PAX rating of 0.863 for BSP. If I were to compete I'd be in the Street Modified category and I would be in the same group as you but my Pax rating would be 0.870
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  10. #25
    Senior Member test squarebit's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    I... I'm confused. I think I hate this, but I don't want to read and/or math enough to know for sure.

  11. #26
    Senior Member test Sooby's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    Say I have a raw time 30 sec how does the Pax get applied is added straight up multiplied? How is it actually calculated. I think I end up in Stu so. 844

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  12. #27
    Member test Nav's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    straight multiplied....25.32

  13. #28
    Administrator test MarcGSR's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    Quote Originally Posted by Snidd View Post
    Thanks Nabs for clearing that up for me! follow up question,since im in BSP,which would be Street Modified for our local class.Do i keep the same rating of 0.863? and just be competing for top 3 with other SM cars? or do all SM cars get a new rating?
    Kelly, if it wasn't for your plenum spacer and roof wing, you would fall into Street Touring Ultra (STU) giving you a PAX factor of 0.844 and compete in the TBAC proposed Performance divison. However, with those two mods, you get bumped to B-Street Prepared (BSP) with a PAX factor of 0.863, you would be placed in the TBAC proposed class Street Modified - since BSP allows R-Competition tires and you are on street tires, we would take into account the Road Tire Index (0.980) and multiply 0.863 x 0.980 giving you a PAX factor of 0.846.

    You could always protest the plenum spacer and the roof wing and the club could make an exception allowing you to remain in Street Touring Ultra (STU) but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
    -----------------------

    Dan J. also asked me to class his BMW and if it wasn't for his R-Compound tires, he would be in Street Touring Ultra and a PAX factor of 0.844 and compete in the proposed Performance division. However, with the rcomps he falls in B-Street Prepared (BSP) with a PAX factor of 0.863. Essentially, a 350Z and E-46 M3 are comparable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Snidd View Post
    Thanks Nabs for clearing that up for me! follow up question,since im in BSP,which would be Street Modified for our local class.Do i keep the same rating of 0.863? and just be competing for top 3 with other SM cars? or do all SM cars get a new rating?
    Yes, you would be competing for a trophy in the proposed Street Modified division against other cars on street tires that fall in the SCCA categories of Street prepared (SP), Street Modified (SM), Prepared (P) or Modified (M).

    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis_conway View Post
    Good question....do you believe bracket racing is better and more fair competition? I personal think for some that are deep into it it is but for the average person that just wants to race it's just a waste of time
    Bracket racing is more about driver and reaction, not horsepower. I prefer standard drag racing but have fun doing both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabs View Post
    If I understand correctly you'd keep your PAX rating of 0.863 for BSP. If I were to compete I'd be in the Street Modified category and I would be in the same group as you but my Pax rating would be 0.870
    Your roof mod - which I'm excited to see - would bump you out of SM. They don't allow replacing the entire roof skin in any Street or Prepared category, you may end up in one of the full Modified classes. But again, you would be able to dispute this and an exception could be made to place you in a more appropriate class.

    Quote Originally Posted by squarebit View Post
    I... I'm confused. I think I hate this, but I don't want to read and/or math enough to know for sure.
    Let me know what you've done that does't come on a stock SRT-4 Neon and I'll let you know. It takes me about 3 minutes to figure out once I have a list of mods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sooby View Post
    Say I have a raw time 30 sec how does the Pax get applied is added straight up multiplied? How is it actually calculated. I think I end up in Stu so. 844
    If you are in STU with a PAX factor of 0.844 you would fall in our TBAC proposed Performance division. Your 30 sec time would be multiplied (30 x 0.844) to give a final PAX time of 25.32, what Nav said, haha. Keep in mind, once you determine what category you fall in (i.e. STU), the new timing software will automatically calculate your PAX time and spit it out along with your raw time.

  14. #29
    Senior Member test Curtis_conway's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    Quote Originally Posted by squarebit View Post
    I... I'm confused. I think I hate this, but I don't want to read and/or math enough to know for sure.
    There is only a few people who like it and they don't even know why....

  15. #30
    I'm a HATER! test MiniD1CK5's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom PAX Car Classing + Points

    Class my car
    FUNCTION >FORM

    Randy Probst's take on the BRZ "it's like a BMW and a Lotus had a baby"

    "Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." -Colin Chapman

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