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Thread: Proposed Autoslalom PAX Car Classing + Points

  1. #1
    Administrator test MarcGSR's Avatar
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    Proposed Autoslalom PAX Car Classing + Points

    How Car Classes are Divided into Groups for the TBAC

    There will be 3 points classes - Street, Street Mod and Performance.

    1. Street
    Only the following Street classes are eligible for competition under this group: SS, AS, BS, CS, DS, ES, FS, GS, HS.


    2. Street Modified
    Cars that fall under Street prepared (SP), Street Modified (SM), Prepared (P) or Modified (M) but tires must be street tires with a tread rating of 200 or more. This group caters to competitors with highly modified cars using street tires. The prefix "S" is added to each car class using street tires, example "BSP" becomes "BSP-S".


    4. Performance
    Cars classed under Street Touring: STU, STR, STX, STS, STC, STF. Also includes any cars with R-compound tires or tires with a tread rating of 200TW and bellow. All racing tire classes will have the "R" prefix added. Example: "CP" becomes "CP-R".


    Scoring

    The fastest of each participant’s official timed runs including penalties shall be used to determine final event rankings. Penalties shall be 1 second for each displaced pylon. Any missed gates result in a DNF (Did Not Finish). A “missed gate” constitutes going around the wrong side of a cone or marker without contact. A PAX factor will be applied to each participant's fastest time (including penalties) based on class. Points will be awarded in relation to the fastest PAX time of the class according to the following formula: Your Points = 1000 x Fastest PAX Time of Class / Your PAX Time. Therefore, the fastest driver in each class shall receive 1000 points for that event.


    Awards

    Trophies will be awarded at the end of the year for Class winners. Points will be awarded for each competitor’s best 'x' events. Competitors may drive any car within their class to compete for points. In the event of a tie, the next best event for each competitor will be used as the tiebreaker.

  2. #2
    Administrator test MarcGSR's Avatar
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    Re: Autoslalom Car Classing + Help Thread

    This is used to figure out your PAX index only! Local classes are the 3 listed above!

    Car Categories and Classes


    Autocross car classes are based on the SCCA Solo program. Here is a quick breakdown of the all the SCCA/CASC car classes and what category they fall under, I have also included the pages where the requirements are explained and which cars are eligible for which class.

    Street Category Starts at page 69 & 165-177
    SS, AS, BS, CS, DS, ES, FS, GS, HS

    Street Touring (ST) Starts at page 79 & 193-197
    STU, STR, STX, STS, STC, STF

    Street Prepared (SP) Starts at page 89 & 199-209
    SSP, ASP, BSP, CSP, DSP, ESP, FSP

    Street Modified (SM) Starts at page 105 & 211-213
    SM, SSM, SMF

    Prepared (P) Starts at page 113 & 215-241
    XP, CP, DP, FP, EP, GP

    Modified (M) Starts at page 135 & 243
    AM, BM, CM, DM, EM, FM, FSAE

    Please consult the 2015 SCCA Solo Rulebook: 2015 SCCA National Solo Rules
    *hint* "control F" will bring up the search function, use it

    or here are two very handy quick reference guides:
    Quick Reference of Category Allowances & Street Category By Manufacturer
    If you have specific car classing questions, please post in this thread
    .


    What class is my car in?

    Some background information on Autoslalom classes

    Street

    – This category includes mass-produced, common vehicles that may be “daily drivers” (cars used for normal, everyday driving). Street Category cars compete in their “factory” configuration with a minimal number of allowances (not requirements).

    Street Touring
    – This class is geared towards cars with common bolt-on modifications. Things like cold-air intakes, headers, lowering springs, etc.

    Street Prepared
    – Any fuel and ignition system is allowed along with any suspension springs and shocks/struts as long as they are fitted into their original location. Things like turbo/superchargers must remain the same.

    Street Modified
    – This is the top tier of the “street” classes. This class allows engine swaps as long as the engine is made by the same manufacturer as the car. You may also add turbo/super chargers, camshaft upgrades, and any suspension upgrades as long as it uses the factory attachment points.

    Prepared
    – This class is generally for non-streetable cars. Things like gutted interiors and racing slicks are a big give away. Most things are allowed in this class and is relied on weight more than anything.

    Modified
    – They are usually special built competition vehicles and most of them resemble an open-wheel Indy car or a closed-wheel LeMans sports racer. DM and EM cars may have started life on the streets, but just about any engine, drivetrain, or suspension is permitted. Supercharged rotary engines and V-8 engines are seen in 1700 pound EM machines and powerful 4-cylinders are common in 1300-pound DM lightweights.
    Last edited by MarcGSR; 05-30-2015 at 02:30 PM. Reason: added links to quick referance

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    Administrator test MarcGSR's Avatar
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    Complaints on the new points system

    3rd post reserved

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    Senior Member test Kattty's Avatar
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    Re: Complaints on the new points system

    So 3 classes on the day of events..okay....

    My question is then, who is ensuring vehicles go in the corrrect PAX to verify the cars are in the correct 3 groups you guys have set up...

    Is pax going to be used to determine the winner per class that day,or used for over all points winner at the end of the year.

    When your dealing with a small number of peoples spare time and your not doing it at a professional level....the best way to go about it is consistency....

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    Re: Complaints on the new points system

    I'm game for this system, but it does seem a bit unfair that just over one week from the start of the season, these changes are made. I purchased a few things for my car this year to be more competitive, and find out that I will be put into an noncompetitive category when it comes to pax. Normally big changes should be noted in advance (for example, say that these rules will come into effect next year). Big changes in SCCA and ASN are given in advance, and often postponed to make the transition easier. And this wasn't discussed in the last meeting, and think it should of (I would of voted yes, and not spent money on my car either)
    Last edited by Nav; 05-28-2015 at 08:15 PM.

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    Administrator test MarcGSR's Avatar
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    Re: Autoslalom Car Classing + Help Thread

    Looking to try something different as well as adding a 3rd class allowing more people to walk away with a trophy.

    Is anyone interested in this points system for next year?

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    Senior Member test Curtis_conway's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom 2016 Car Classing + Points

    I'm all about hating this idea but I guess I can respond productively( be like James) I suggest the ones that are really serious about implementing this system to participate in a autoslolam out of town that uses the pax system. Then you'll be making educated decisions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Maybe I should explain why I'm against....pax system will force the people to to keep there cars stock as possible( because that's just how you play the game) so if we're are talking about minimal mods to what you have then you are best to buy the best car that will give you the advantage. Ie dont buy tires or suspension just buy the proper car. Another example....2011 Sti vs 90 talon.....same class stock....not a fair race....but with modifications to the talon you could possibly be satisfied with your finishing position.....another unfair issue.....b swaps in civics...stock??? Well the owner will fight you tooth and nail that they came stock some where in this world....how are you going to deal with that?......another fact....we all heard that Nav changed bushings in his car.....guess what....bam he's fucked, pax will punish him for those bushings.

    When people wake up Sunday morning and have no fucken clue what or where there car fits you're going to see a decrease in cars. You're playing with people's free time, why make things harder than it needs to be Sunday morning?
    Last edited by Curtis_conway; 05-29-2015 at 06:08 AM.

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    Senior Member test Mitsubaru's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion on the new points system

    As someone who hasn't participated in Auto X but did attend, if I were to participate for the first time (and I'm assuming most participants would feel the same way) I wouldn't really care about a trophy. More so for the fun times and just ripping it around corners. I know at least for me I'd rather just be pitted against all the cars, no classes. Just one group and that's it. That way, future events if you modify or change vehicles, you can judge improvements and see where you stack up against the rest. Just my two cents.

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    Re: Complaints on the new points system

    How are the classes determined? What if I showed up with ExtremeDW tires which have a super high treadwear number(340), but have loads of grip? What about the fact it is 300+horse power and AWD? Does that have any affect of the classes?
    Last edited by dorkage; 05-29-2015 at 11:34 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by VRsuper6
    the inards of the VR is actually filled with babies getting punched in the face repeatedly. this is where the sound comes from, sweet sweet infantile punishment.



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    Senior Member test Snidd's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion on the new points system

    Iam ok with either scoring/timing system....love to try the PAX,even for one year, see how it goes....yes i know the Z isnt a great autoX car to begin with,modded..hurt it more for timing...and still learning to race..even more so... but i did mod my car to improve it from stock...rightly so i should ranked accordingly so..and yes i know blah blah blah, stock MX-5s..i know...maybe a power to weight ratio penalty would solve that(not realistic..hard to dyno and weight everyones car).... i love how everyone is in one group....either way,i will be out racing having fun...

    2003-350Z
    2005-Acura EL
    2000-Maxima
    2001-Elantra
    1990-Spirit

  11. #11
    Member test Nav's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    Like I said earlier, I'm a fan of what you propose and again, I'm not happy with the timing of the transition (a bit more notice would of been nice). As far as I know, the club actually never voted on it, and to make it official, I would think that would be necessary. I think PAX is a worthy discussion, and something that we should be aiming for in the future, but not necessarily next week! But despite my criticism, I'm super happy to have Mark pushing for greater venues, more fair competition, and better equipment. Thanks for everything you do for the club and for autox!

  12. #12
    Senior Member test Snidd's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    Trying to figure the classing out.. 350Z (03,non nismo) is C-Class(why 370z is in my class i dunno,haha)...guessing my sub class would be Modified.. CM=0.91...or Street Prepared CSP=0.863
    -Figured it out.(Dam emissions equipment,bump'd my class,hahah) iam in Street Prepared C-class=0.863
    Awesome reference(easy to use) once you look up ur stock cars class: http://cny-scca.com/solo/SCCA_Classing_Guide.pdf
    -Can look up ur cars year/model for your class : http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...ne_reduced.pdf
    Last edited by Snidd; 05-30-2015 at 01:05 AM.

    2003-350Z
    2005-Acura EL
    2000-Maxima
    2001-Elantra
    1990-Spirit

  13. #13
    Premium Member test Nabs's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    Quote Originally Posted by Snidd View Post
    Trying to figure the classing out.. 350Z (03,non nismo) is C-Class(why 370z is in my class i dunno,haha)...guessing my sub class would be Modified.. CM=0.91...or Street Prepared CSP=0.863
    -Figured it out.(Dam emissions equipment,bump'd my class,hahah) iam in Street Prepared C-class=0.863
    Awesome reference(easy to use) once you look up ur stock cars class: http://cny-scca.com/solo/SCCA_Classing_Guide.pdf
    -Can look up ur cars year/model for your class : http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...ne_reduced.pdf
    You don't base the class of the car on what it would be if it were stock. For every category other than street modified (which has no classes), the classes are different and you can find it in Appendix A under the corresponding category.

    So in your case, the first thing you do is look up what category your car falls under with it's current mods, and you're in the Street Prepared category. Next you look a Appendix A and scroll down to the Street Prepared Category and look at the classes until you find your vehicle under one of the classes. All 350z' fall under class B of the Street Prepared Category, therefore you are in BSP with a PAX index of 0.863

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dorkage View Post
    How are the classes determined? What if I showed up with ExtremeDW tires which have a super high treadwear number(340), but have loads of grip? What about the fact it is 300+horse power and AWD? Does that have any affect of the classes?

    Classes are determined by looking at the SCCA categories and seeing what category your car is in based on your current mods then, once you've found out your category, looking at Appendix A to determine what class your car falls under in the category you've determined for yourself. They don't care about what specific tire or brand it is, they base everything off treadwear. The SCCA already factor in what the vehicles are capable of with the classes of each category.

    So lets say your car falls under the stock category, you go to Appendix A and scroll down to the stock category part of the document and look through the classes (A, B, C, etc) until you find the class your vehicle is listed under, in your case it would be "D", so you are in "DS". If you have mods you have to determine what mods are acceptable for each category and see which one you fall into, be it Stock, Street Touring, Street Prepared, Street Modified, Prepared or Modified and then again you would go back to Appendix A, look through whichever category you now fall under and see which class your car is listed under.

    For those that want to determine their categories and classes you can take a look at the SCCA documents, I will post links below to each category as well as Appendix A:
    Street
    Street Touring
    Street Prepared
    Street Modified
    Prepared
    Modified
    Appendix A

    There are a few more references available on the SCCA website HERE
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  14. #14
    Senior Member test Curtis_conway's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    There is no chance in hell that the tech guy will have all the cars classed correctly.

    Kattys Sti will fit in BS pax factor of .826 see how you got f'd over a little more snidd


    And I found Sacco's gsr at .831
    Last edited by Curtis_conway; 05-30-2015 at 07:51 AM.

  15. #15
    Premium Member test Nabs's Avatar
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    Re: Proposed Autoslalom Car Classing + Points

    Marc and I made a small list of cars and what we thought their PAX index would be over in the PAX Index poll thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcGSR View Post
    Nabs and I pulled times of some competitors in both our Street and Performance classes from the hospital Autoslalom Fundraiser (if you participated, feel free to calculate your own PAX and I'll add it to the list) and applied the PAX index to see how it would affect points. It's quite easy to figure out your class/PAX if you know the mods done to your vehicle.

    Street Results:
    Name Time
    Mike R. 42.246
    Shawn A. 42.526
    Marc S. 43.595
    Steve S. 43.596
    Kelly T. 43.610
    Cale T. 45.245

    Performance Results:
    Name Time
    Dan J. 41.062
    Eric R. 41.955
    Justin M. 42.403
    Curtis S. 42.775
    Dan T. 46.240
    Chelsea S. 50.225

    After applying PAX:
    Name Time Class PAX
    Justin M. 34.177 GS 0.806
    Mike R. 34.219 FS 0.810
    Shawn A. 34.361 ES 0.808
    Dan J. 35.436 BSP 0.863
    Eric R. 35.788 SMF 0.853
    Steve S. 36.010 BS 0.826
    Curtis S. 36.102 STU 0.844
    Marc S. 37.230 DSP 0.854
    Kelly T. 37.635 BSP 0.863
    Dan T. 38.425 STX 0.831
    Cale T. 39.363 SM 0.870
    Chelsea S. 40.883 CS 0.814
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