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Thread: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

  1. #1
    Administrator test MarcGSR's Avatar
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    Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    I'd like to list the options that are available and provide some info on each so that competitors can make an informed decision at the end of the season's meeting where next year's points and classing will be voted on.

    Points
    Regardless what classing system we adopt - I'd like to see us move away from the current Ice Racing points system (1st receives 40 points, 2nd receives 35 points, 3rd receives 32 and down from there by 2's until everyone that completes a run gets at least 10 points per event) to a system that works off the Fastest Time of the Day in each class.

    Points would be awarded for completing each event based on a percentage of your time in relation to the event winner’s time. Your Points = 1000 x Fastest Time of Class / Your Time. Therefore, the fastest driver in each Class shall receive 1000 points for that event.

    ---------------------------------------------

    Classing
    1) Street = 300 treadwear and above, Performance = Under 300 treadwear. Current two class system based on treadwear.

    2) FWD, RWD, AWD. Three classes based on drivetrain. Treadwear doesn't matter, you compete with everyone in your class regardless of mods.

    3) PAX w/ Divisions. We break cars down into SCCA/CASC national classes to obtain a PAX index factor then, depending on PAX class, you are grouped into three divisions - Street, Performance, Street Modified. See this thread for additional discussion of PAX.

    Street = Only SCCA Street classes: SS, AS, BS, CS, DS, ES, FS, GS, HS - these classes mandate stock cars with street tires only.
    Performance = SCCA classes under Street Touring: STU, STR, STX, STS, STC, STF - covers mildly modified cars and mandates street tires only. Plus all SCCA classes that allow r-comp tires - Street Prepared, Street Modified, Prepared, Modified, or Kart - covers medium-highly modified cars on r-comps.
    Street Modified = All SCCA classes that allow r-comp tires, similar to above, but competitors instead choose to run street tires: Street Prepared, Street Modified, Prepared, Modified, or Kart - covers medium-highly modified cars that have chosen to run street tires and therefore are subject to the street tire index.

    4) Street NA, Super Street, Street Unlimited. These classes are used at MAP Proving Grounds in Brainerd.

    Street NA = Any 4-cylinder naturally aspirated street car. Must have Interior - OEM dash, heater, carpet, 2-front seats, headlights and taillights.
    Super Street = Must have Interior - OEM dash, heater, carpet, 2-front seats, headlights and taillights. Must be running STOCK turbo, STOCK cams, STOCK internals, STOCK injectors. Cars NOT eligible: C5 & C6 Corvette, GTR, Viper, 911 GT2/3, Exige, or other exotics.
    Street Unlimited = Must have Interior - OEM dash, heater, carpet, 2-front seats, headlights and taillights.

    Note: These classes are 140+ treadware. MAP uses a fourth class, Unlimited - which allows any mods and r-comp tires. We wouldn't have enough drivers in this category to support this fourth class so we would have to decide weather to outlaw r-comp tires or allow them in one or all of the three classes. Also, Proving Grounds uses the PAX index to calculate points, so again, we would need to decide weather to adopt that as well or use raw times.

    ---------------------------------------------

    Please read the above options and use this thread for any questions or clarification prior to voting at the fall meeting. Please, come vote if you would like to have input on this decision. It is my hope that, by expanding to a third class if moving to option 2, 3 or 4, we will be giving more opportunities for people to win and take home trophies at the end of the year.
    Last edited by MarcGSR; 08-15-2015 at 01:57 AM. Reason: formatting

  2. #2
    Senior Member test Sooby's Avatar
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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    I like the idea of option 4. If anyone is going to go to bigger autox event it's more than likely going to be map. Being on par with that event would make sense. So anyone going to it would know how they are going to being classed. As for points i'de be game for doing Pax but only if everyone else is on board. I like the way the club has expanded autox this year it's been a lot of fun with the new timing system and it would nice to see it grow even more

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    Senior Member test 20Specv12's Avatar
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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    After reading all the options I kind of like option 4, although it would be kind of cool to see the fwd, awd, rwd battle it out as well. We do have more than enough cars that comes out every races to do either both options too

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    Senior Member test Snidd's Avatar
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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    Im on board for PAX..my vote would be for #3 or #4...whatever is chosen ill still race either way... not for #2 tho,not a fan of having to run against the BMWs..haha

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  5. #5
    I'm a HATER! test MiniD1CK5's Avatar
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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    Is there people complaining about how it is classed now and if so what don't they like? If not then why change what isn't broken?
    FUNCTION >FORM

    Randy Probst's take on the BRZ "it's like a BMW and a Lotus had a baby"

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  6. #6
    Member test mazdaspeed's Avatar
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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    lol ill choose the FWD grouping

    nah #3 or #4 sounds good.

    i like the concept of PAX, however, given the nature of the size of our tracks it seems to unfairly disadvantage some cars based on the benefits they have even though the courses arent laid out for them to maximize the benefits that are negatively impacting their PAX rating.

    i dont know enough about it yet to really make a meaningful decision so ill have to yield to the more senior members of the group......

    but if we do switch to FWD / AWD / RWD that would be a pretty consistent final result within the groups.

  7. #7
    Administrator test MarcGSR's Avatar
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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    July 19 - ACE

    Street Results:
    Name Vehicle Raw Time
    Shawn Allen 1992 Mazda Miata 44.735
    Jon Nelson 1992 Mazda Miata 45.09
    Kelly Teras 2003 Nissan 350Z 46.057
    Marc Sacco 1995 Acura Integra 46.099
    Leif Dyson 2003 Nissan 350Z 46.191
    Mattew Harrison 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 46.53
    T.J. O'Doan 2003 Nissan 350Z 46.903
    Adam Swan 1990 Toyota Celica 47.327
    Charles Burak 2010 Lancer EVO 47.337
    Alan Hjorth 2003 Nissan 350Z 47.612
    Joeseph DeSousa 1990 Mazda Miata 47.69
    Danny Massaro 1990 BMW 325i 48.171
    Darcy Tilson 2013 Dodge Dart 48.284
    Jonathon Kroker 2004 Audi A4 50.237
    Jordan Vetterli 2013 Dodge Dart 50.301
    Mike Rothenburger 2004 Dodge Neon 51.187
    Zhenhua Lin 2005 Honda Civic 52.06

    Performance Results:
    Name Vehicle Raw Time
    Mike Rossi 2004 BMW 330i 42.131
    Kevin Cameron 2002 Subaru WRX 42.73
    Dan Jagielowicz 2002 BMW E46 M3 42.815
    Dave Sokolowski 2006 Subaru STi 42.999
    Justin Merkir 2013 Ford Focus ST 43.133
    Larry Johanson 2006 Subaru WRX STi 43.654
    Erik Tremblay 1993 Honda Civic 44.069
    Matt Monkhouse 1992 Mazda Miata 44.728
    Tyler Balyk 2005 Infinity G35 45.922
    Jessly Bonifacio 2012 Nissan Sentra V 47.008
    Eric Curran 1992 Mazda Miata 47.913
    Chelsea Sacek 2013 Subaru BRZ 48.742

  8. #8
    Administrator test MarcGSR's Avatar
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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    #3 - PAX w/ Division

    Street:
    Name Vehicle Class Pax Factor Pax Time
    Joeseph DeSousa 1990 Mazda Miata ES 0.808 38.534
    Danny Massaro 1990 BMW 325i GS 0.806 38.826
    Chelsea Sacek 2013 Subaru BRZ CS 0.814 39.676
    Jonathon Kroker 2004 Audi A4 GS 0.806 40.491
    Zhenhua Lin 2005 Honda Civic HS 0.796 41.440

    Performance:
    Name Vehicle Class Pax Factor Pax Time
    Mike Rossi 2004 BMW 330i DSP 0.854 35.980
    Dave Sokolowski 2006 Subaru STi STU 0.844 36.291
    Dan Jagielowicz 2002 BMW E46 M3 BSP 0.863 36.949
    Shawn Allen 1992 Mazda Miata STS 0.828 37.041
    Jon Nelson 1992 Mazda Miata STS 0.828 37.335
    Mattew Harrison 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 STX 0.831 38.666
    Leif Dyson 2003 Nissan 350Z STU 0.844 38.985
    Jessly Bonifacio 2012 Nissan Sentra V STX 0.831 39.064
    Adam Swan 1990 Toyota Celica STS 0.828 39.187
    T.J. O'Doan 2003 Nissan 350Z STU 0.844 39.586
    Darcy Tilson 2013 Dodge Dart STX 0.831 40.124
    Jordan Vetterli 2013 Dodge Dart STX 0.831 41.800

    Street Modified:
    Name Vehicle Class Pax Factor Pax Time
    Justin Merkir 2013 Ford Focus ST DSP 0.837 36.099
    Kevin Cameron 2002 Subaru WRX SM 0.853 36.432
    Erik Tremblay 1993 Honda Civic SMF 0.836 36.839
    Larry Johanson 2006 Subaru WRX STi SM 0.853 37.219
    Matt Monkhouse 1992 Mazda Miata CSP 0.844 37.741
    Tyler Balyk 2005 Infinity G35 ESP 0.832 38.208
    Marc Sacco 1995 Acura Integra SMF 0.836 38.536
    Kelly Teras 2003 Nissan 350Z BSP 0.846 38.952
    Charles Burak 2010 Lancer EVO ASP 0.848 40.128
    Eric Curran 1992 Mazda Miata CSP 0.844 40.428
    Alan Hjorth 2003 Nissan 350Z FP 0.862 41.061
    Mike Rothenburger 2004 Dodge Neon FP 0.862 44.144

  9. #9
    Administrator test MarcGSR's Avatar
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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    #4 Street NA, Super Street, Street Unlimited w/PAX

    Street NA:
    Name Vehicle Class Pax Factor Pax Time
    Shawn Allen 1992 Mazda Miata STS 0.828 37.041
    Jon Nelson 1992 Mazda Miata STS 0.828 37.335
    Matt Monkhouse 1992 Mazda Miata CSP 0.844 37.741
    Joeseph DeSousa 1990 Mazda Miata ES 0.808 38.534
    Marc Sacco 1995 Acura Integra SMF 0.836 38.536
    Jessly Bonifacio 2012 Nissan Sentra V STX 0.831 39.064
    Adam Swan 1990 Toyota Celica STS 0.828 39.187
    Chelsea Sacek 2013 Subaru BRZ CS 0.814 39.676
    Eric Curran 1992 Mazda Miata CSP 0.844 40.428
    Zhenhua Lin 2005 Honda Civic HS 0.796 41.440

    Super Street:
    Name Vehicle Class Pax Factor Pax Time
    Mike Rossi 2004 BMW 330i DSP 0.854 35.980
    Justin Merkir 2013 Ford Focus ST DSP 0.837 36.099
    Dave Sokolowski 2006 Subaru STi STU 0.844 36.291
    Dan Jagielowicz 2002 BMW E46 M3 BSP 0.863 36.949
    Tyler Balyk 2005 Infinity G35 ESP 0.832 38.208
    Mattew Harrison 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 STX 0.831 38.666
    Danny Massaro 1990 BMW 325i GS 0.806 38.826
    Kelly Teras 2003 Nissan 350Z BSP 0.846 38.952
    Leif Dyson 2003 Nissan 350Z STU 0.844 38.985
    T.J. O'Doan 2003 Nissan 350Z STU 0.844 39.586
    Darcy Tilson 2013 Dodge Dart STX 0.831 40.124
    Charles Burak 2010 Lancer EVO ASP 0.848 40.128
    Jonathon Kroker 2004 Audi A4 GS 0.806 40.491
    Alan Hjorth 2003 Nissan 350Z FP 0.862 41.061
    Jordan Vetterli 2013 Dodge Dart STX 0.831 41.800

    Street Unlimited:
    Name Vehicle Class Pax Factor Pax Time
    Kevin Cameron 2002 Subaru WRX SM 0.853 36.432
    Erik Tremblay 1993 Honda Civic SMF 0.836 36.839
    Larry Johanson 2006 Subaru WRX STi SM 0.853 37.219
    Mike Rothenburger 2004 Dodge Neon FP 0.862 44.144
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    #4 Street NA, Super Street, Street Unlimited w/Raw Times

    Street NA:
    Name Vehicle Raw Time
    Matt Monkhouse 1992 Mazda Miata 44.728
    Shawn Allen 1992 Mazda Miata 44.735
    Jon Nelson 1992 Mazda Miata 45.09
    Marc Sacco 1995 Acura Integra 46.099
    Jessly Bonifacio 2012 Nissan Sentra V 47.008
    Adam Swan 1990 Toyota Celica 47.327
    Joeseph DeSousa 1990 Mazda Miata 47.69
    Eric Curran 1992 Mazda Miata 47.913
    Chelsea Sacek 2013 Subaru BRZ 48.742
    Zhenhua Lin 2005 Honda Civic 52.06

    Super Street:
    Name Vehicle Raw Time
    Mike Rossi 2004 BMW 330i 42.131
    Dan Jagielowicz 2002 BMW E46 M3 42.815
    Dave Sokolowski 2006 Subaru STi 42.999
    Justin Merkir 2013 Ford Focus ST 43.133
    Tyler Balyk 2005 Infinity G35 45.922
    Kelly Teras 2003 Nissan 350Z 46.057
    Leif Dyson 2003 Nissan 350Z 46.191
    Mattew Harrison 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 46.53
    T.J. O'Doan 2003 Nissan 350Z 46.903
    Charles Burak 2010 Lancer EVO 47.337
    Alan Hjorth 2003 Nissan 350Z 47.612
    Danny Massaro 1990 BMW 325i 48.171
    Darcy Tilson 2013 Dodge Dart 48.284
    Jonathon Kroker 2004 Audi A4 50.237
    Jordan Vetterli 2013 Dodge Dart 50.301

    Street Unlimited:
    Name Vehicle Raw Time
    Kevin Cameron 2002 Subaru WRX 42.73
    Larry Johanson 2006 Subaru WRX STi 43.654
    Erik Tremblay 1993 Honda Civic 44.069
    Mike Rothenburger 2004 Dodge Neon 51.187

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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    #2 - Drivetrain w/PAX

    FWD:
    Name Vehicle Class Pax Factor Pax Time
    Justin Merkir 2013 Ford Focus ST DSP 0.837 36.099
    Erik Tremblay 1993 Honda Civic SMF 0.836 36.839
    Marc Sacco 1995 Acura Integra SMF 0.836 38.536
    Mattew Harrison 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 STX 0.831 38.666
    Jessly Bonifacio 2012 Nissan Sentra V STX 0.831 39.064
    Adam Swan 1990 Toyota Celica STS 0.828 39.187
    Darcy Tilson 2013 Dodge Dart STX 0.831 40.124
    Zhenhua Lin 2005 Honda Civic HS 0.796 41.440
    Jordan Vetterli 2013 Dodge Dart STX 0.831 41.800
    Mike Rothenburger 2004 Dodge Neon FP 0.862 44.144

    RWD:
    Name Vehicle Class Pax Factor Pax Time
    Mike Rossi 2004 BMW 330i DSP 0.854 35.980
    Dan Jagielowicz 2002 BMW E46 M3 BSP 0.863 36.949
    Shawn Allen 1992 Mazda Miata STS 0.828 37.041
    Jon Nelson 1992 Mazda Miata STS 0.828 37.335
    Matt Monkhouse 1992 Mazda Miata CSP 0.844 37.741
    Joeseph DeSousa 1990 Mazda Miata ES 0.808 38.534
    Danny Massaro 1990 BMW 325i GS 0.806 38.826
    Kelly Teras 2003 Nissan 350Z BSP 0.846 38.952
    Leif Dyson 2003 Nissan 350Z STU 0.844 38.985
    T.J. O'Doan 2003 Nissan 350Z STU 0.844 39.586
    Chelsea Sacek 2013 Subaru BRZ CS 0.814 39.676
    Eric Curran 1992 Mazda Miata CSP 0.844 40.428
    Alan Hjorth 2003 Nissan 350Z FP 0.862 41.061

    AWD:
    Name Vehicle Class Pax Factor Pax Time
    Dave Sokolowski 2006 Subaru STi STU 0.844 36.291
    Kevin Cameron 2002 Subaru WRX SM 0.853 36.432
    Larry Johanson 2006 Subaru WRX STi SM 0.853 37.219
    Tyler Balyk 2005 Infinity G35 ESP 0.832 38.208
    Charles Burak 2010 Lancer EVO ASP 0.848 40.128
    Jonathon Kroker 2004 Audi A4 GS 0.806 40.491
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    #2 - Drivetrain w/Raw Times

    FWD:
    Name Vehicle Raw Time
    Justin Merkir 2013 Ford Focus ST 43.133
    Erik Tremblay 1993 Honda Civic 44.069
    Marc Sacco 1995 Acura Integra 46.099
    Mattew Harrison 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 46.53
    Jessly Bonifacio 2012 Nissan Sentra V 47.008
    Adam Swan 1990 Toyota Celica 47.327
    Darcy Tilson 2013 Dodge Dart 48.284
    Jordan Vetterli 2013 Dodge Dart 50.301
    Mike Rothenburger 2004 Dodge Neon 51.187
    Zhenhua Lin 2005 Honda Civic 52.06

    RWD:
    Name Vehicle Raw Time
    Mike Rossi 2004 BMW 330i 42.131
    Dan Jagielowicz 2002 BMW E46 M3 42.815
    Matt Monkhouse 1992 Mazda Miata 44.728
    Shawn Allen 1992 Mazda Miata 44.735
    Jon Nelson 1992 Mazda Miata 45.09
    Kelly Teras 2003 Nissan 350Z 46.057
    Leif Dyson 2003 Nissan 350Z 46.191
    T.J. O'Doan 2003 Nissan 350Z 46.903
    Alan Hjorth 2003 Nissan 350Z 47.612
    Joeseph DeSousa 1990 Mazda Miata 47.69
    Eric Curran 1992 Mazda Miata 47.913
    Danny Massaro 1990 BMW 325i 48.171
    Chelsea Sacek 2013 Subaru BRZ 48.742

    AWD:
    Name Vehicle Raw Time
    Kevin Cameron 2002 Subaru WRX 42.73
    Dave Sokolowski 2006 Subaru STi 42.999
    Larry Johanson 2006 Subaru WRX STi 43.654
    Tyler Balyk 2005 Infinity G35 45.922
    Charles Burak 2010 Lancer EVO 47.337
    Jonathon Kroker 2004 Audi A4 50.237

  11. #11
    Administrator test MarcGSR's Avatar
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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    *Note: all above PAX times listed under SCCA Street Prepared and Street Modified classes have had the Street Tire Index of 0.980 applied (i.e. PAX Index * Street Tire Index).

    I have tried to make the above information as legible as possible. I hope to have provided enough example data for everyone to make their own educated decision.

  12. #12
    Senior Member test Snidd's Avatar
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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    Hmmm... Interesting... Marc could you do results if there was Street tire/Performance tire classes, but with PAX?

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  13. #13
    Senior Member test 20Specv12's Avatar
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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    Wow this took some time to input. Thanks Marc for all your work!

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  14. #14
    I'm a HATER! test MiniD1CK5's Avatar
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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    Just leave it how it is now but outlaw slicks, simple.
    FUNCTION >FORM

    Randy Probst's take on the BRZ "it's like a BMW and a Lotus had a baby"

    "Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." -Colin Chapman

    "He who shall be last, shall be sideways and smiling"

  15. #15
    Senior Member test Curtis_conway's Avatar
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    Re: Classing Discussion for 2016 Autoslalom

    Quote Originally Posted by MiniD1CK5 View Post
    Just leave it how it is now but outlaw slicks, simple.
    Now now Cale...let it go, at this point you're just talking to the wall. All the negatives from the shitty pax system have been discussed in another thread....

    It's not worth our time Cale.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1672208559664989&id=137641687591082 7&set=pb.1376416875910827.-2207520000.1439898852.&source=54


    This is why they use pax in brainerd...

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